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#1 10/21/2009 10:44 am

aj2008
Indubitably tentacular
From: England
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 3887

Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

As I announced in my SquidLog article yesterday - you have read it haven't you wink - next week's article will be on Guestbook Etiquette.

I will be telling the story of the guy (but no names or links - sorry) who was stupid enough to Spam my Squid Etiquette lens - you know, the one that discusses about NOT spamming Guestbooks lol

And of course there was the perv who posted about a website all about enhancing the male anatomy. Yep, in one of my RocketMoms lenses - we reckon he misunderstood what RocketMoms meant....

I wondered if anyone would like to rant, oops I mean tell us about the annoying things that have happened in your Guestbooks. But please no direct links to the guilty parties, just general stories.

Either post on here or email me through my Contact Me button on my Bio - but if you email be sure to let me know if you want to remain anonymous as if I use your stuff I will link to you if you dont say otherwise.

Last time I asked for contributions I was given some great stuff to use - am betting there's some more good stuff out there for this topic too!

Thanks in anticipation
AJ smile


Organising the Squidoo Answer Deck

How to Research Keywords | Squidoo Induction

Do's and Dont's on Squidoo: Squid Etiquette

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#2 10/21/2009 11:05 am

GrowWear
Giant Squid Greeter
Registered: 01/27/2007
Posts: 1560

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

When people do this, it's hard to take it personally. If they knew me personally, they'd know that their worthless links are diligently deleted, and soon, and with a gleeful zeal.


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#3 10/21/2009 1:10 pm

kab
Giant Squid Greeter
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 1780

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

I think an article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette would also be helped with examples of when an link in the guestbook is appropriate and examples of guestbook entries with links that are great.

For example, on August 07, 2009, on my lens What to Do With Your Old Soda Cans, LauraSchofield left the message:
My son and I have yet to complete this, but its a pretty cool idea
http://digg.com/d3NMA3

It was an awesome link - Thanks Laura.

Also, on my lens Organ Donation Should be an Opt-Out System, johncpate left in the duel this message:
At the recent TED conference, Dan Ariely, a behavioral economists shows how the opt-out system does significantly affect overall participation in organ donation. The link is below. The whole talk is great, but the bit about the opt-out system for organ donations starts around the 5 minute mark.
Personally, I think hoarding your own organs after you no longer need them is one of the most selfish things you can do.
http://tinyurl.com/qmk79w

That link was so awesome that I watched the whole video, several other speeches from him, read his book, and made a lens on him.

As far as etiquette goes, people should not leave irrelevant links, but we need to make sure they feel completely comfortable leaving a great link.

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#4 10/21/2009 9:33 pm

Ener-G
Citizen Squid Alumni

From: Montana
Registered: 11/18/2007
Posts: 1421

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

Those are good points Kab. I love relevant links and info.

On my lens on how to lower blood sugar naturally I ask readers to add their own kitchen table wisdom and have had some amazing comments that have really added to the value of the lens, including some doctors who encourage and remind people to get appropriate diagnoses, etc.

Some of the comments have been so good, I might have to add a module to highlight the top 10 comments!

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#5 10/22/2009 1:17 am

aj2008
Indubitably tentacular
From: England
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 3887

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

Adding a module to highlight the Top 10 comments Gia is a great idea - I have done the same on my bullying lens where some people have made good points or ones I dont necessarily agree with and I have responded in the module.

This stops salient points from ending up way down the Guestbook and getting buried - particularly if there's a lot of comments.

You could also add any decent links that people have left to a Link List.


Organising the Squidoo Answer Deck

How to Research Keywords | Squidoo Induction

Do's and Dont's on Squidoo: Squid Etiquette

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#6 10/22/2009 4:28 am

drifter0658
Mesonychoteuthis
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 873

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

Maybe this fits the topic or maybe it doesn't, but here goes.....

I like debates at my lenses and my blogs. Earlier this year there was a wonderfully spirited debate in my guestbook at my Somali Pirates lens. No flame throwers, no name calling, just a wonderful exchange of viewpoints.

Recently, I stumbled across two posts that were identical in their viewpoints. I commented my disagreement at both posts and was told by one blogger that I had actually hurt them because I didn't support their viewpoint even though I disagreed. Not because I was unruly (I was, as always, completely civil in my remarks), but because I disagreed. The other blogger hasn't caught me by the nape of my neck yet to scold me for the act of dissension.

Healthy debates in guestbooks generally means the lensmaster or blogger has done a wonderful job instilling emotions. Healthy debates in guestbooks  will get folks to reread lenses and blog posts. Healthy debates educate.

One etiquette  issue here is one of censorship. If we don't like it when someone disagrees with our POV, then edit the comment out, but don't get hurt because someone disagrees. We are not gods and goddesses who have all the right answers. I know I don't ever want to be thought of as being right ALL of the time. Respect visitors and their opinions (as long as they are expressed in a civil manner) and you'll find a guestbook that is alive and exciting.

As far as being a guest, never shy away from your own opinions, but always remain cordial as you express them. Stay on point and comeback to see if there is a rebuttal.


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#7 10/22/2009 5:51 am

luvmyludwig
Giant Squid Greeter
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 652

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

Ener-G wrote:

Those are good points Kab. I love relevant links and info.

On my lens on how to lower blood sugar naturally I ask readers to add their own kitchen table wisdom and have had some amazing comments that have really added to the value of the lens, including some doctors who encourage and remind people to get appropriate diagnoses, etc.

Some of the comments have been so good, I might have to add a module to highlight the top 10 comments!

I love the idea of a top comments module, I may have to steal this idea  smile  love it!

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#8 10/22/2009 6:49 pm

mysticmama
Citizen Squid Alumni

From: St. Paul MN
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 2517

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

I was recently spammed in one of my guestbooks... or maybe I wasn't???

I considered it spam, but Squidoo didn't... so it was a very frustrating experience...

Another Squidoo member who has been a member since 2007, but only has 2 lenses...
left what to me was a commercial about how great his website was, with a link to said website...

The comment did not include an reference to my lens...
not even a "nice lens"

Just check out how great his site is, a list of products people could buy at his site & the link to said site...

I reported it to HQ, even though I felt really bad about reporting a fellow lensmaster...
but I figured if he had been a member since 2007 and still did this, that he was probably doing it to other people's lenses as well...

but obviously this guy knows just how to manipulate the system & get away with it...
HQ e-mailed me back saying:  (quote)

"Cases like this are usually touchy. When it's a totally irrelevant message, it's easy to say it's spam. With something like this, the lensmaster may really truly think this is an appropriate way to promote his link. After all, they teach this EVERYWHERE, including in lots of Squidoo ebooks.  I've sent a warning note and hopefully that is all that's needed!"

See the loophole is that he spammed my lens with a link & commercial for his website that was somewhat related to the topic of my lens...

Sending this person a "warning" is not going to make him stop this behavior, because he knows just how to play the system...

The scariest part about this whole experience is that Squidoo HQ believes that this sort of spam is acceptable just because...

"they teach this EVERYWHERE, including in lots of Squidoo ebooks"

IMO this is the lamest excuse for bad behavior I've heard since my boys were in Junior High School...

It just reminds me of when kids say "well Johnny did it, so I guess it's okay"

and as parents we all knee jerk the reply... "so if Johnny jumps off a bridge are you going to do that too"

Perhaps Squidoo HQ needs a little constructive parenting... because just because bad behavior is EVERYWHERE, including in lots of Squidoo sbooks... does not magically make said bad behavior acceptable.

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#9 10/22/2009 6:58 pm

kab
Giant Squid Greeter
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 1780

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

mysticmama wrote:

HQ e-mailed me back saying:  (quote)

"Cases like this are usually touchy. When it's a totally irrelevant message, it's easy to say it's spam. With something like this, the lensmaster may really truly think this is an appropriate way to promote his link. After all, they teach this EVERYWHERE, including in lots of Squidoo ebooks.  I've sent a warning note and hopefully that is all that's needed!"

See the loophole is that he spammed my lens with a link & commercial for his website that was somewhat related to the topic of my lens...

Sending this person a "warning" is not going to make him stop this behavior, because he knows just how to play the system...

The scariest part about this whole experience is that Squidoo HQ believes that this sort of spam is acceptable just because...

"they teach this EVERYWHERE, including in lots of Squidoo ebooks"

Squidoo HQ did not say that that behavior was acceptable.  They did send a warning note.  I am certain that if this lensmaster were to get reported again for the same behavior that the actions they take would be different.

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#10 10/23/2009 4:24 am

aj2008
Indubitably tentacular
From: England
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 3887

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

mysticmama wrote:

The scariest part about this whole experience is that Squidoo HQ believes that this sort of spam is acceptable just because...

"they teach this EVERYWHERE, including in lots of Squidoo ebooks"

Bambi, I am with Spook here, HQ did not say it was acceptable, they gave a reason as to why some people do it - there's a difference.

The guy has had a warning. He is being educated - Squidoo does have people who have been turned around because of warnings from HQ and help from other lensmasters. If he does it again and providing he gets reported, he will be ejected off Planet Squidoo.

"Providing he gets reported", which is why I keep saying: "Report, report, report".

A lot of these Spammers go through the Top 100s - so if you get Spammed on a lens that is in a Top 100, check the other lenses around you. I bet you'll find more lenses that have been Spammed - include that info in the report so HQ is aware of the extent of the problem.


Organising the Squidoo Answer Deck

How to Research Keywords | Squidoo Induction

Do's and Dont's on Squidoo: Squid Etiquette

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#11 10/23/2009 4:33 am

daybreak
Full fledged kraken (500+ posts)
From: North America
Registered: 08/17/2006
Posts: 513

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

I try to just use the delete button and move on. I have too much to do to dwell on spam.

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#12 10/23/2009 4:53 am

aj2008
Indubitably tentacular
From: England
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 3887

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

daybreak wrote:

I try to just use the delete button and move on. I have too much to do to dwell on spam.

But if everyone used that report button there would be less Spammers on the site to deal with wink


Organising the Squidoo Answer Deck

How to Research Keywords | Squidoo Induction

Do's and Dont's on Squidoo: Squid Etiquette

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#13 10/24/2009 11:14 am

mysticmama
Citizen Squid Alumni

From: St. Paul MN
Registered: 12/31/1969
Posts: 2517

Re: Researching for an Article about Lens Guestbook Etiquette

aj2008 wrote:

daybreak wrote:

I try to just use the delete button and move on. I have too much to do to dwell on spam.

But if everyone used that report button there would be less Spammers on the site to deal with wink

See, that's just the problem AJ...
It's not that easy to just report it...

there is the whole "guilt" complex involved in reporting a fellow lensmaster
no one wants to be a tattle tale

I struggled with the decision and felt terrible about reporting the person...
even though this guy's clever loophole type of spam was really even more offensive to me than the cheesy newbie spam we frequently see...
In fact is was because this person wasn't a newbie and should know better, that convinced me to report him...

to be totally truthful, I rarely report newbie spammers unless they spam multiple lenses...
If it's just one lens, somewhat related to their spam... I usually send them a friendly e-mail letting them know that they can get in trouble for posting spam type comments in people's guestbooks... and then I usually get an e-mail reply from them, thanking me for the heads up, because they had been taught by an e-book that they were supposed to do that ...

We're raised to not be tattle tales, in school that concept is reinforced by our peers...
no one wants to be branded a snitch, rat or narc...
by the time we are adults it's ingrained in us not to tell on each other...

In this aspect Squidoo becomes the parent, teacher, authorities...
and we feel like children again... not wanting to tell on the naughty kids in class...
or for people like me, who were the naughty kids in class... it's even harder to break that code of silence

As an adult, it's easy to see the need for reporting bad behavior, but that doesn't make it any easier to do...
and then when one finally does "report" it, and gets the kind of response I got...
It makes one ask themselves "why bother, if nothing is done about it anyway due to loopholes?"

BTW... I'm sure that this type of experience has happened to others, but I doubt many people would be willing to fess up to it... peer pressure & how other people see & judge us, really matters to most people... you know me though, always brutally honest... even if it's myself that I'm sacrificing in the name of truth...

I started a thread about the incident above, right after it happened, because I felt so bad about reporting a fellow lensmaster
http://www.squidu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=45291

66 people viewed that thread, but only 3 people had the courage to respond, and only 2 of those 3 had the courage to say that I did the right thing...
Oh, I am sure that there are lensmasters who do report bad behavior as long as can stay anonymous...
but I would bet even more report it once, get a similar response to what I got and never report anything ever again, thinking "what's the point"

but most would never admit to reporting because of the stigma attached to being a tattle tale

I know that I now feel very much like "what's the point" as far as reporting it goes
and even more so, if I were ever to report again (which I'm not sure I ever will) I would for sure remain anonymous about it...
which is why I probably would never report again... I have issues with being anonymous... to me, being anonymous is like telling a lie and you know me... I don't think I could lie if you held a gun to me head lol

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